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Rebound Headaches

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grannysa

(Member)
From: Dalby
158 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Hi all,
I was doing a bit of net searching and came across an article on "Analgesic Rebound" headaches.

http://www.headachedrugs.com/archives/rebound_migraines.html

The article's too large to paste, so here's a bit of a synopsis.

It was written by a Dr Robbins, described as on of the top 10 experts in the country (US)on management of headache medications (whatever that means) and presents a case study of a young man, aged 23, with a history of "severe daily headaches and frequent migraines" from the age of 5, who has had little success in managing his headaches using a range of medications, many of which will no doubt be familiar to CH sufferers here on this site.

The patient in the case study is currently taking "12 to 14 pills per day of an aspirin and caffeine combination" - I'm not sure what they would be (Ben, we need you here) - but it seems that in this young man's case the supposed cure is actually part of the problem.

Admittedly, no where in the article is the term "cluster headache" mentioned, and the medication causing the problem may not be something used for the management of cluster headache, but it's still an interesting read.

Cheers
Sara
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AlphaEcho

(Member)
From:
7 total posts
Currently suffering :(
"The patient in the case study is currently taking "12 to 14 pills per day of an aspirin and caffeine combination" - I'm not sure what they would be (Ben, we need you here) - but it seems that in this young man's case the supposed cure is actually part of the problem."

Hey Sara,

I was suffering while on holidays in the US and the doc I went to see over there recommended 'EXCEDRIN' (active ingredients in each tab - Acetaminophen 250mg, Aspirin 250mg (NSAID - Non-Steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drug) and Caffeine 65mg (equal to one cup of coffee). I was taking up to 10 of these a day (which is really bad), but they were giving me relief, helping me to function without having severe attacks during the day. I bought back 400 tablets with me and only use them when I'm not on anything else. Funnily enough, on the second last day of my holiday, another doctor made be dissolve 2 25mg Phenergan on my tongue, which not only tasted like sh!t (and I couldn't get the taste out of my mouth for hours) it also made my tongue and throat numb and irritated the back of my throat, but my cycle stopped immediately. Having said that, the same action recently (along with calcium channel blockers) has seemed to stop the more severe episodes.

This is my first post and I'm a bit funny in the head at the moment, so hopefully this has some relevance here?

All the best with treating your CH sad
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grannysa

(Member)
From: Dalby
158 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Hi AlphaEcho

Welcome but sorry you have to be here.....

I'm so pleased the info on the site provided a starting point for you and your GP to arrive
at a diagnosis. There's heaps of info to the left and top of the page that's really useful, including an info sheet you can give to interested people and a diary to record how things are going for you.

You seem to be exploring lots of options for management - hopefully you'll find something that works for you. One of our members, Barry, has also posted info re a supplement based program that may also be worth trying. I've posted a link to the thread in case you haven't come across it as of yet.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com.au/forum_posts.php?id=2689

I'm also interested in your statement in your profile that your grandfather had CH until his 60's, but no longer suffers. We've recently had a bit of a debate re long term prognosis so anything you can add to that re your grandfather's situation would be really appreciated.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com.au/forum_posts.php?id=2707&start=0[
/L]


Thanks for the info re the aspirin/caffeine combination.Being a bit ignorant on the medication side of things I googled acetaminophen and found it to be simply paracetamol!!

Hope all goes well with your push for an early neuro appointment

Cheers
Sara
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AlphaEcho

(Member)
From:
7 total posts
Currently suffering :(
Hey Sara,

This site is a God send! I'm on here all the time, pouring through all the info, taking notes and searching posts... While most of the info is amazingly helpful and hopeful, some stories scare the crap out of me!

Thanks for posting the link to both threads, I'll put these at the top of my list to go through.

Sorry, I meant to explain what acetaminophen is (fuzzy head)... It was OTC too smile

I'm planning to talk to my Grandfather more about his CH. He's mid-eighties now, so talking on the phone (we live in different states) is hard, between his hearing and his mind. I have asked my Mother to get some info for me, face to face ASAP smile.

I know very little (as he is pushed to remember any detail)...

- Believes his first instance was during the war in which he served in the Navy. This would put him in his late teens to very early 20's
- After the war he often had these terrible headaches and was diagnosed with migraines
- He suffered terribly with PTSD, so the headaches were lumped in with that and its lot.
- He suffered classic and exact symptoms of CH until his mid 60's. He describes what I am going through with perfect accuracy as does my Grandmother, Mum and Aunties, having watched him for years.
- His diagnosis came after his CH stopped.
- He believes that a treatment prescribed by a new doctor of strong antihistamines cured him of CH. The doctor was treating him for severe sinusitis.

I'll post more (in a new thread or tack it on to the one above?) once I get more info for general info.

Thanks for your well wishes smile

Edam
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grannysa

(Member)
From: Dalby
158 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Hi Edam
You're right, this site is a godsend. If you go to the home page and scroll down the bottom to "About the Site" you'll read about Roger, a CH sufferer and IT whizz who set everything up in the first place. Thanks Roger!!!!

You can post the info re your grandfather in the prognosis thread. If it's not right, one of the moderators will fix it. They're good at that icon

Again, all the best
Sara
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Roger

(Admin/Moderator)
From: Burpengary
258 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Les,
Please keep your posts concise, stick to known facts, instead of theories that newcomers might take as fact, and stick to CH.

Also, please do not post information about threatments that are not used by qualified medical practitioners in the treatments of Cluster Headaches. Doing so will get your account removed from this site. It's ok to talk about possible causes and discuss that, but delving into remedies is dangerous territory.

Every person is different and every medication will have different effects on different people. That is why as the disclaimer at the bottom of this page says, one should consult their own doctor before *any* treatment. Your posts here seem to undermine the site's disclaimer, one which we take seriously. If you continue, I'm afraid we'll have no choice but to remove your account.

And Sara: my pleasure smile
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Ben

(Member)
From:
327 total posts
Currently suffering :(
Rebound Headaches - also known sometimes as Medication overuse Headaches (MOH)

A dose of optimism from the Prof...

Hi to all,
Firstly, thank you Roger. Les was part of the reason I feel I was wasting my time on the site. That said - At last I have something new to contribute - Pr Rolan is onto something as I have outlined before. It looks like they are seeking participants for clinical trials of a new drug called "Ibudilast". I know the trial does not mention the word "Cluster" anywhere, but I know Pr Rolan, he will more than likely have intentions to experiment with the drug in cluster headache. Even if he doesn't - I do.
Unsure whether this was AV411, now named. But it looks like the modelling in headache conditions has started, right here in Adelaide Uni. I want in. I told you he was onto something...

After a year of disbelief, I can't resist this - I have taken heat for my ideas for a long time now, so a big Hello to all the detractors out there who doubted what we can achieve here in little old Adelaide. Anyone remember Howard Florey? smile
Who said it couldn't be done????

IT IS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01317992

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid={826e8841-bf3c-4274-90d9-e9a673f3cb99}

http://clinicaltrialsfeeds.org/clinical-trials/show/NCT01317992

I am off to see if I meet selection criteria, I will report any successes.
Bring on the next generation of CH drugs!!!!

Cheers, Ben.This post was edited on 16/01/2012 at 4:26 pm
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Ben

(Member)
From:
327 total posts
Currently suffering :(
Apologies, something went wrong with the 2nd link.
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grannysa

(Member)
From: Dalby
158 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Ben !! Welcome back !!

This is super interesting info. I've read the above and also revisited your earlier posts on glial cells - it took me a bit to get my head around it, but wow! I understand your excitment.

I'm just a bit confused with the trial part though - the info said the trial would be completed by December 2011, yet the article was dated October 2011 and said "recruiting now" ???

You hint at the fact that you've been flamed over your faith in Dr Rolan??? Don't be so hard on us Ben - people, by nature, tend to resist change. Lifestyle changes, behaviour changes, thought changes etc can all be overwhelming when added to the complexities of daily life, especially when one is dealing with an on going medical problem.

And yes, Howard Florey was the penicillin dude from Adelaide.

Cheers
Sara
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Ben

(Member)
From:
327 total posts
Currently suffering :(
Thanks Sara,
I neglected to check the dates, you are probably correct. Oh well, I probably won't get to participate. Turns out I would have not met selection criteria during that timeframe, I would probably have been excluded on one or more of the exclusion grounds, due to other illnesses. I was pretty sure Pr Rolan would have mentioned the trial if I was a suitable candidate anyway. Rather embarrasingly, I had just become over-enthusiastic and emailed him asking to participate, thus interrupting his important work with my trivialities...
That will teach me to read it before I post it...
I think what threw me, is that I keep a pretty close eye on what is going on here and I had not seen those search results show up in a Google search recently - I search on AV411, CGRP receptor antagonists and any other proposed medications almost weekly, just out of curiosity. To me, it seems as if the document was only posted in the last week or so. But with searches, it can be hit and miss, maybe I missed it before, I don't know.
The good news, is that if the completion date was December 2011, we are probably one step closer to being able to either take it to clinical trial phase in CH conditions, or it will be at the very least, one step closer to the Pharmacy shelf.

I have no idea what promises it holds for CH. I know only what I have read about it online. As yet, it has not got a serious mention in CH literature that I am aware of, but if it turns out to be relevant to CH treatment, I am sure it will show up somewhere as a product of treatment overlap between headache conditions. If it ever appears on-shelf, I am sure that CHers could gain access through the correct mechanisms with the help of their medical specialists.

I hope this drug can offer some relief, no matter how long it takes.

We live in hope.

Sorry for the mistake. smile
Sorry for the comments about being flamed, just a few islolated cases here and there have got the better of me. It was mostly in response to PM activity I received from passers through, not the regulars here. I lack diplomacy at times and didn't mean to offend.

Some hopeful sings, but I think it will be a while before we see it...
I did find the datasheet: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/Datasheet/2/i01
57dat.Par.0001.File.tmp/i0157dat.pdf


The drug "ships on 31-1-12", that sounds encouraging!

Perhaps, try going here and try the drug name "Ibudilast" for more info: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/australia.html

Price and Availability
SKU-Pack Size Availability Price (AUD) Quantity

I0157-10MG Ships on 31.01.12 - FROM 305.55

I0157-50MG Ships on 31.01.12 - FROM 1,197.00

This link may not work, sorry having trouble getting a link direct to the product: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?D7=0N5=SEARCH_
CONCAT_PNO
|BRAND_KEY&N4=I0157|SIGMA&N25=0&QS=ON&F=SPEC

Cheers, Ben.This post was edited on 16/01/2012 at 10:06 pm
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Ben

(Member)
From:
327 total posts
Currently suffering :(
Hi to all,
Got an email back from the Prof - "You do not have Medication overuse headache".
I think I have blurred the important distinction between MOH and rebound attacks.
It looks like there is an important clinical separation between the two headache conditions.
My mistake.

Still, I hope we see some trials in CH, if it turns out to be relevant.
I was barking up the wrong tree again... Sorry Sara and anyone else who took this information to heart. I made a mistake.

I am going back under a rock for a while, until I am certain that I can report any significant Pharmacological advances for CH. I will not be participating on a daily basis anymore, but I will check in from time to time and keep CHers in the loop if anything new appears on the horizon.

Thanks to all for putting up with me.

Cheers, Ben.
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saintpeter

(Member)
From:
610 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Ben, it was not a mistake, it was an error. You knew it might not be.
If you know, it's an error, not a mistake, but it would be both not to hope and believe there is a solution to CH.
cheers peter
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Barry T Coles

(Member)
From: Karratha
217 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Hi Folks

I have hidden all the posts made by Myself, Peter & Les over the last few days in this thread as they had no relevance to the nature of the original post by Sara.

Regards
Barry
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grannysa

(Member)
From: Dalby
158 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
Ben

Absolutely no need to apologise.

Your statement "It looks like there is an important clinical separation between the two headache conditions." had me back at the keyboard, searching away, and yes there is a distinction and yes, I now have a much better understanding of the two.

Again, something gained from your input.

Sara
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saintpeter

(Member)
From:
610 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
All good, Barry.

Yep, Sara, that's something I didn't realise either. We learn something new every day, and frequently it's because of Ben icon

cheers peter
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Lucille Stoneburner

(Member)
From: Brisbane
1 total posts
Not currently suffering :D
My husband was once loving and caring but to a point he stopped and totally forsake me, he wasn't having time for me because he was having an affair, all he was, i was so devastated that i didn't know what to do. I did love him so much, even when he was still not caring and was cheating i couldn't leave cause i still loved him, i sorted for help from every where i could to have my husband back, i luckily found Robinson Buckler who was helping people out on relationship and marriage issues. I went on and contacted him, i explained what i was going through in my marriage, then he assured me that he would help me, i did all that he instructed me to do and then he told me that my husband would return to me after some days, i waited patiently and after some days passed my husband came home one evening and started apologizing to me to forgive him for how he had been treating me, i was so surprised beyond words that i can't thank this you enough. Write this name {{Robinson.buckler}} on Google to get his contact

Lucille Stoneburner, United States
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